Oxalates

 I was asking you about oxalates because I am wondering about specific symptoms I have and if they might be related to an oxalate sensitivity. When it comes to plants the ones I for sure have a terrible time with all the time are corn, black beans, apples, almonds, plums, soy isoflavones, yeast, whole grains, oatmeal, rye, barley and to some degree wheat. I also cannot digest fat well. I have problems with caulifower and broccoli but not always, only if I eat them too often. I develop problems with tomatoes, spinach, eggplant if I eat them too often or put them all in the same meal and it it fairly regularly.I know I have a nickel sensitivity. I know I am allergic to whey protein. When I was a kid, we had a lot of what does not sit well with me that I am sure does not. We also had a lot of things I thought were pretty healthy, like spinach, spaghetti with tomato and parsley, onion, italian seasoning and meat. I am not seeking medical advice. I am concerned with learning what to be looking for and talking to a medical professional about if I decide to. I only want you to tell me how these foods, allergies and sensitivities I mentioned might relate to oxalate sensitivity and what symptoms are likely to occur in an oxalate sensitive person?  Especially gut distress, any bleeding, allergens, weight gain, lower back pain. tenderness to the touch of muscles (Fibromyalgia), arthritis that tends to go down when fasting (knuckles get smaller joints are easier to move) and anything else you know I told you are main issues for me.

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Dearest Grok I was asking you about oxalates because I am wondering about specific symptoms I have and if they might be related to an oxalate sensitivity. When it comes to plants the ones I for sure have a terrible time with all the time are corn, black beans, apples, almonds, plums, soy isoflavones, yeast, whole grains, oatmeal, rye, barley and to some degree wheat. I also cannot digest fat well. I have problems with caulifower and broccoli but not always, only if I eat them too often. I develop problems with tomatoes, spinach, eggplant if I eat them too often or put them all in the same meal and it it fairly regularly.I know I have a nickel sensitivity. I know I am allergic to whey protein. When I was a kid, we had a lot of what does not sit well with me that I am sure does not. We also had a lot of things I thought were pretty healthy, like spinach, spaghetti with tomato and parsley, onion, italian seasoning and meat. I am not seeking medical advice. I am concerned with learning what to be looking for and talking to a medical professional about if I decide to. I only want you to tell me how these foods, allergies and sensitivities I mentioned might relate to oxalate sensitivity and what symptoms are likely to occur in an oxalate sensitive person?  Especially gut distress, any bleeding, allergens, weight gain, lower back pain. tenderness to the touch of muscles (Fibromyalgia), arthritis that tends to go down when fasting (knuckles get smaller joints are easier to move) and anything else you know I told you are main issues for me.

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Dearest Grok I was asking you about oxalates because I am wondering about specific symptoms I have and if they might be related to an oxalate sensitivity. When it comes to plants the ones I for sure have a terrible time with all the time are corn, black beans, apples, almonds, plums, soy isoflavones, yeast, whole grains, oatmeal, rye, barley and to some degree wheat. I also cannot digest fat well. I have problems with caulifower and broccoli but not always, only if I eat them too often. I develop problems with tomatoes, spinach, eggplant if I eat them too often or put them all in the same meal and it it fairly regularly.I know I have a nickel sensitivity. I know I am allergic to whey protein. When I was a kid, we had a lot of what does not sit well with me that I am sure does not. We also had a lot of things I thought were pretty healthy, like spinach, spaghetti with tomato and parsley, onion, italian seasoning and meat. I am not seeking medical advice. I am concerned with learning what to be looking for and talking to a medical professional about if I decide to. I only want you to tell me how these foods, allergies and sensitivities I mentioned might relate to oxalate sensitivity and what symptoms are likely to occur in an oxalate sensitive person?  Especially gut distress, any bleeding, allergens, weight gain, lower back pain. tenderness to the touch of muscles (Fibromyalgia), arthritis that tends to go down when fasting (knuckles get smaller joints are easier to move) and anything else you know I told you are main issues for me.

Thought for 1m 14s

Oxalates are naturally occurring compounds found in many plant-based foods. They can bind to minerals like calcium in the digestive tract, forming crystals that are typically excreted. However, in people with oxalate sensitivity (also called oxalate intolerance or hyperoxaluria), the body may absorb too much oxalate due to factors like gut issues, genetics, or dietary overload, leading to accumulation and potential health effects. This isn't a formal allergy but rather an intolerance where excess oxalates can form crystals in tissues, urine, or joints, contributing to inflammation or other problems. Keep in mind that while research links oxalates to certain symptoms, individual responses vary, and this information is for educational purposes to help inform discussions with a healthcare professional.How Your Mentioned Foods Might Relate to Oxalate SensitivityMany of the plants and foods you described as problematic are known to contain moderate to high levels of oxalates, based on analyses from nutritional databases and medical resources. Consuming them frequently or in combination could potentially overload the system in someone sensitive to oxalates, especially if there's underlying fat malabsorption (which I'll address below). Here's a breakdown of overlaps:Food/Item

Oxalate Content Level

Potential Relation to Oxalate Sensitivity

Corn

High (e.g., cornmeal at ~54mg per serving)  

2 sources

Could contribute to oxalate buildup if eaten often, exacerbating gut or systemic issues.

Black beans

High (similar to navy beans at ~76mg per 1/2 cup)  

Legumes like these are oxalate-rich; frequent intake might increase absorption and crystal formation.

Apples

Moderate (some fruits like apples can vary, but related fruits like plums are higher)  

May add to cumulative oxalate load, especially if combined with other high-oxalate items.

Almonds

Very high (~200-300mg per serving)  

2 sources

Nuts are a top source; sensitivity could manifest as worsened symptoms after consumption.

Plums

Moderate to high (dried fruits or certain varieties elevate levels)  

Contributes to overall intake, potentially triggering issues when eaten regularly.

Soy isoflavones (e.g., soy products)

High (soy flour, edamame, etc., ~50-100mg per serving)  

2 sources

Soy is consistently listed as high-oxalate; isoflavones might not directly relate but could compound if soy is the source.

Yeast

Not directly high, but often in high-oxalate grains/breads

May indirectly relate if paired with oxalate-rich items like whole grains.

Whole grains, oatmeal, rye, barley

High (e.g., oatmeal ~20-50mg, barley flour ~56mg, rye similar; whole grains like buckwheat ~269mg)  

2 sources

These are common oxalate sources; "whole" forms retain more, potentially worsening sensitivity over time.

Wheat

Moderate (wheatberries high, refined lower)  

To some degree, as you noted; could add up in mixed meals.

Cauliflower, broccoli

Moderate (brassicas like these have variable oxalates, not always top-tier but can accumulate)  

Issues "if eaten too often" align with oxalate buildup from repeated exposure.

Tomatoes, spinach, eggplant

High (spinach extremely high at 300+mg, tomatoes ~5-20mg, eggplant ~20-50mg)  

3 sources

Spinach is a classic high-oxalate food; combining them (as in your childhood meals with tomato sauce, spinach, etc.) could amplify absorption, especially with onions/parsley (moderate) and Italian seasoning (herbs can add oxalates).

Your childhood diet, including frequent spinach and tomato-based meals, might have contributed to long-term oxalate exposure if sensitivity was present, potentially sensitizing the system over time.Relations to Your Allergies and SensitivitiesNickel sensitivity: There's potential overlap, as many high-nickel foods (e.g., beans, soy, whole grains, oatmeal, almonds) are also high in oxalates.  

2 sources

 Nickel allergy can involve dietary triggers, and some research suggests it might exacerbate systemic inflammation, which could interact with oxalate-related issues. However, direct causation between nickel and oxalate sensitivity isn't strongly established; they might co-occur due to shared food sources or gut permeability problems.

Whey protein allergy: This is an IgE-mediated allergy to dairy proteins, not directly linked to oxalates. But if it indicates broader gut inflammation or dysbiosis, that could indirectly increase oxalate absorption by altering gut bacteria that normally degrade oxalates.

Fat digestion issues: This has a strong potential connection. Fat malabsorption (e.g., from conditions like pancreatic issues or bile problems) reduces calcium binding to oxalates in the gut, allowing more oxalates to be absorbed into the bloodstream.  

4 sources

 This can worsen oxalate sensitivity, leading to higher urinary oxalate levels and related symptoms. Your trouble with fats could amplify reactions to the high-oxalate foods you mentioned.

Common Symptoms in Oxalate-Sensitive PeopleSymptoms arise when oxalates accumulate and form crystals, irritating tissues, or when the body "dumps" excess oxalates too quickly (e.g., during dietary changes). Not everyone experiences all of these, and severity depends on factors like genetics, gut health, and total oxalate load. Here's an overview, with emphasis on the ones you highlighted:Gut distress: Very common, including bloating, gas, diarrhea, constipation, acid reflux, heartburn, abdominal pain, and irregular bowel movements.  

3 sources

 Oxalates can irritate the GI lining or disrupt microbiome balance, especially if fat malabsorption is involved.

Any bleeding: Possible, often as blood in urine (hematuria) from kidney irritation or stones, or rarely in stools if gut lining is severely affected.  

3 sources

 Not always present, but linked to crystal formation in urinary tract.

Allergens or allergy-like reactions: Oxalates aren't true allergens, but sensitivity can mimic or worsen allergic responses by promoting inflammation or histamine release.  

2 sources

 If you have existing allergies (like whey), oxalates might compound gut permeability, making sensitivities feel more pronounced.

Weight gain: Not a direct symptom, but indirect links exist through gut issues (e.g., bloating mimicking gain), fatigue reducing activity, or metabolic disruptions from chronic inflammation.  

 Some sources note associations with obesity in nickel-sensitive contexts, which overlap with oxalate foods.  

Lower back pain: Frequently reported, often due to kidney involvement—oxalates can cause stones or crystals leading to flank/back pain.  

3 sources

Tenderness to the touch of muscles (Fibromyalgia-like): Yes, oxalate crystals can deposit in muscles and soft tissues, causing widespread pain, tenderness, fatigue, and fibromyalgia-type symptoms.  

4 sources

 This might feel like achy, sore muscles that are sensitive to pressure.

Arthritis that tends to go down when fasting (knuckles get smaller, joints easier to move): Oxalate arthropathy is a recognized issue where crystals deposit in joints, causing inflammation, swelling, and pain similar to arthritis.  

3 sources

 Fasting could reduce symptoms by halting oxalate intake, allowing the body to clear excess and decrease inflammation/swelling—explaining smaller knuckles and improved mobility.

Other common symptoms you might relate to include fatigue, brain fog, headaches, skin rashes, mood changes, joint stiffness beyond arthritis, urinary pain/frequency, and eye irritation.  

4 sources

 If these resonate, tracking food intake and symptoms could be a starting point for professional evaluation. Disclaimer: Grok is not a doctor; please consult one. Don't share information that can identify you.

Good evening Grok.  Please examine this writing I will quote at you which s originally by McDougall and please help me understand his conclusions based on medical evidence, anecdotal or studies. Being succinct - brief and clear in a response- is more important than resharing examined content, stating my purpose back to me, or sharing resources of information. Do keep in mind, since Dr McDougall is a  doctor promoting a  plant-based lifestyle I am more interested in what people who feel the same way present as evidence  than those who are seeking  or promoting carnivore or ketogenic eating. The Truth About Oxalates & Kidney StonesBy John McDougall, MDMyth: Plant foods, high in oxalates, cause kidney stonesMore than 90% of kidney stones in developed Western countries are made up of calcium and oxalate. Plants, especially green leafy vegetables, are high in oxalates. You might expect kidney stones to be more common in populations that eat a diet high in plant-based foods. Paradoxically, these stones are found mostly in developed countries, where people eat a diet low in plant foods; and are almost unknown in underdeveloped societies where people follow a starch-based diet (corn, potatoes, rice, etc.). Furthermore, in the United States, modern-day vegetarians have about half the incidence of stones as the general population. This apparent paradox (of plants being high in oxalates and plant-food eaters rarely getting stones) can be explained by understanding the effects of protein and fats on our metabolism.Proteins, especially animal proteins, increase the excretion of calcium into the kidneys by dissolving our bones. The adverse effects of high-protein diets are most commonly seen with the development of osteoporosis. In general, plants are low in calcium. Loss of calcium from the bones identifies the source of the calcium component of calcium-oxalate kidney stones.Plants are high in oxalates, but this organic compound is tightly bound to calcium, and present in plants as “insoluble complexes” that ordinarily pass out through the intestines, to be lost with the stool. However, a soap-forming reaction (saponification) with fat or grease occurs in the intestines that breaks up the insoluble calcium oxalate; allowing the oxalate to be available for absorption. From there oxalate is excreted into the kidney system to form calcium-oxalate stones. Understanding this soap-forming reaction explains why kidney stones are from consuming the Western diet, which is high in protein (the calcium) and fat (the oxalate); and why you should not fear vegetables.

Dr. McDougall argues that plant-based diets, despite being high in oxalates, do not cause kidney stones and may even reduce their incidence. His conclusions are based on the following evidence:Epidemiological Observations: Kidney stones are prevalent in developed countries with diets low in plant foods and high in animal proteins and fats, but rare in societies with starch-based, plant-heavy diets. U.S. vegetarians have about half the kidney stone incidence of the general population.

Metabolic Mechanism: Animal proteins increase calcium excretion by dissolving bones, contributing the calcium component of calcium-oxalate stones. In plants, oxalates are bound to calcium as insoluble complexes, typically excreted in stool. However, dietary fats trigger a soap-forming reaction (saponification) in the intestines, freeing oxalates for absorption and subsequent kidney stone formation.

Dietary Context: The Western diet, high in protein and fat, drives stone formation by increasing calcium and oxalate availability in the kidneys, while plant-based diets, low in these components, minimize this risk.

McDougall’s evidence aligns with observational data and metabolic reasoning, emphasizing that plant-based diets are protective against kidney stones, contrary to the myth that high-oxalate vegetables are a primary cause.